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	<title>Comments on: Take the Trading Long View</title>
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	<description>Information and resources for those looking to learn about trading and the markets</description>
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		<title>By: Cross-Talk: Three Winning Characteristics of Training Programs for Traders &#124; Forex Hour to Hour - Forex Trading News, Forex System Reviews, Twitter Updates</title>
		<link>http://theessentialsoftrading.com/Blog/index.php/2008/02/02/take-the-trading-long-view/#comment-16940</link>
		<dc:creator>Cross-Talk: Three Winning Characteristics of Training Programs for Traders &#124; Forex Hour to Hour - Forex Trading News, Forex System Reviews, Twitter Updates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theessentialsoftrading.com/Blog/index.php/2008/02/02/take-the-trading-long-view/#comment-16940</guid>
		<description>[...] an excellent post, John Forman, author of The Essentials of Trading, notes the pitfalls of the trader whose primary [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] an excellent post, John Forman, author of The Essentials of Trading, notes the pitfalls of the trader whose primary [...]</p>
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		<title>By: How much cash to start FX trading online - T2W Day Trading &#38; Forex Forums</title>
		<link>http://theessentialsoftrading.com/Blog/index.php/2008/02/02/take-the-trading-long-view/#comment-11009</link>
		<dc:creator>How much cash to start FX trading online - T2W Day Trading &#38; Forex Forums</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 02:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theessentialsoftrading.com/Blog/index.php/2008/02/02/take-the-trading-long-view/#comment-11009</guid>
		<description>[...] be a common theme of late: &quot;Can I use a little money to make a lot of money?&quot;  Read this: Take the Trading Long View  __________________ Author - The Essentials of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] be a common theme of late: &quot;Can I use a little money to make a lot of money?&quot;  Read this: Take the Trading Long View  __________________ Author &#8211; The Essentials of [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://theessentialsoftrading.com/Blog/index.php/2008/02/02/take-the-trading-long-view/#comment-11003</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 22:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theessentialsoftrading.com/Blog/index.php/2008/02/02/take-the-trading-long-view/#comment-11003</guid>
		<description>Bill, you and I are of the same mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, you and I are of the same mind.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bill aka NO DooDahs!</title>
		<link>http://theessentialsoftrading.com/Blog/index.php/2008/02/02/take-the-trading-long-view/#comment-11002</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill aka NO DooDahs!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 20:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theessentialsoftrading.com/Blog/index.php/2008/02/02/take-the-trading-long-view/#comment-11002</guid>
		<description>I just took a quick peek at the IASG data, and of the 156 commodity trading advisors (CTA) with 5+ years of trading data, only THREE had 60-month cumulative annualized returns over 40%. 

I think that unrealistic return expectations contribute to a lot of beginning traders blowing up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just took a quick peek at the IASG data, and of the 156 commodity trading advisors (CTA) with 5+ years of trading data, only THREE had 60-month cumulative annualized returns over 40%. </p>
<p>I think that unrealistic return expectations contribute to a lot of beginning traders blowing up.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://theessentialsoftrading.com/Blog/index.php/2008/02/02/take-the-trading-long-view/#comment-10998</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 19:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theessentialsoftrading.com/Blog/index.php/2008/02/02/take-the-trading-long-view/#comment-10998</guid>
		<description>I totally agree Bill. I know that by focusing on only a few positions at a time I can outperform any institution over a given timeframe. I once doubled an IRA account in 18 months - after fund managers had lost half my money! More than that, I can be out of the market when I don&#039;t see anything worth doing.

The two advantages I would give the funds is information and access. I work for Thomson Financial and get to see the enormous amounts of information that institutions can have access to if they want (not to mention what they know of their own in-house operations). Also, there are all sorts of complexities in the markets of which we retail folks just never see. The guys I work with have been on funding desks and involved with activities which go way, way beyond the type of stuff we even realize is going on. The average investor/trader has no idea how complex the global financial system really is. Heck, I&#039;m involved in it (albeit indirectly) and it blows &lt;b&gt;my&lt;/b&gt; mind sometimes.

All that said, you&#039;re right. Institutions are hobbled by their size - and by the restrictions placed on them from a regulatory perspective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree Bill. I know that by focusing on only a few positions at a time I can outperform any institution over a given timeframe. I once doubled an IRA account in 18 months &#8211; after fund managers had lost half my money! More than that, I can be out of the market when I don&#8217;t see anything worth doing.</p>
<p>The two advantages I would give the funds is information and access. I work for Thomson Financial and get to see the enormous amounts of information that institutions can have access to if they want (not to mention what they know of their own in-house operations). Also, there are all sorts of complexities in the markets of which we retail folks just never see. The guys I work with have been on funding desks and involved with activities which go way, way beyond the type of stuff we even realize is going on. The average investor/trader has no idea how complex the global financial system really is. Heck, I&#8217;m involved in it (albeit indirectly) and it blows <b>my</b> mind sometimes.</p>
<p>All that said, you&#8217;re right. Institutions are hobbled by their size &#8211; and by the restrictions placed on them from a regulatory perspective.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill aka NO DooDahs!</title>
		<link>http://theessentialsoftrading.com/Blog/index.php/2008/02/02/take-the-trading-long-view/#comment-10996</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill aka NO DooDahs!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 17:05:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theessentialsoftrading.com/Blog/index.php/2008/02/02/take-the-trading-long-view/#comment-10996</guid>
		<description>I definitely think that retail traders could, from a logistical standpoint, outperform the institutional traders.  

Institutions have some knowledge advantage and some expense advantages, but they are limited by the amount of money they have to deploy and by their institutionalized (for lack of a better word) attitudes towards diversification and turnover.  I also think they perform on some very deeply flawed mathematical models.  The pros don&#039;t outweigh the cons.

I think a proper study would have to be done by someone outside academia, as they would actually have to understand the techniques used by traders (!), and would have to measure different portfolio sizes (maybe 5-50 issues in stepwise fashion).

That being said, I still believe that (1) most retail traders lose money, (2) good retail traders can consistently outperform the indices they use to select issues from, and (3) 40-50% compounded is probably the bleeding edge of long-term possibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely think that retail traders could, from a logistical standpoint, outperform the institutional traders.  </p>
<p>Institutions have some knowledge advantage and some expense advantages, but they are limited by the amount of money they have to deploy and by their institutionalized (for lack of a better word) attitudes towards diversification and turnover.  I also think they perform on some very deeply flawed mathematical models.  The pros don&#8217;t outweigh the cons.</p>
<p>I think a proper study would have to be done by someone outside academia, as they would actually have to understand the techniques used by traders (!), and would have to measure different portfolio sizes (maybe 5-50 issues in stepwise fashion).</p>
<p>That being said, I still believe that (1) most retail traders lose money, (2) good retail traders can consistently outperform the indices they use to select issues from, and (3) 40-50% compounded is probably the bleeding edge of long-term possibility.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://theessentialsoftrading.com/Blog/index.php/2008/02/02/take-the-trading-long-view/#comment-10995</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I definitely can&#039;t disagree with you on that. I think that 40-50% is definitely way out on the distribution of return scales in terms of sustained compounded RoR for retail. Heck It&#039;s way out the curve for the fund managers, even in good markets!

I know a lot of academic research indicates that money managers can&#039;t be the market averages and thus we should all index trade. I found myself wondering yesterday if anyone had ever done a study which wasn&#039;t based on timing an index or with returns coming from a portfolio - meaning did they ever look at returns from folks who traded maybe 1-3 stocks at a time? I&#039;ll have to ask my professor friend if he&#039;s seen anything like that. I realize that flies in the face of the diversification idea, but that can work for as well as against.

I&#039;m guessing that&#039;s never really been studied, though. First, how would you do it? Second, academic finance has a really strong instituional bias. No fund could ever just trade a handful of stocks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely can&#8217;t disagree with you on that. I think that 40-50% is definitely way out on the distribution of return scales in terms of sustained compounded RoR for retail. Heck It&#8217;s way out the curve for the fund managers, even in good markets!</p>
<p>I know a lot of academic research indicates that money managers can&#8217;t be the market averages and thus we should all index trade. I found myself wondering yesterday if anyone had ever done a study which wasn&#8217;t based on timing an index or with returns coming from a portfolio &#8211; meaning did they ever look at returns from folks who traded maybe 1-3 stocks at a time? I&#8217;ll have to ask my professor friend if he&#8217;s seen anything like that. I realize that flies in the face of the diversification idea, but that can work for as well as against.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m guessing that&#8217;s never really been studied, though. First, how would you do it? Second, academic finance has a really strong instituional bias. No fund could ever just trade a handful of stocks.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill aka NO DooDahs!</title>
		<link>http://theessentialsoftrading.com/Blog/index.php/2008/02/02/take-the-trading-long-view/#comment-10993</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill aka NO DooDahs!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 15:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theessentialsoftrading.com/Blog/index.php/2008/02/02/take-the-trading-long-view/#comment-10993</guid>
		<description>What do you think is the bleeding edge of long-term retail trader returns?  By long-term, I mean compounding over multiple years, 3-5 or more.

I&#039;m looking around and thinking that 40-50% is about the 99.9th percentile.

Opinions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do you think is the bleeding edge of long-term retail trader returns?  By long-term, I mean compounding over multiple years, 3-5 or more.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m looking around and thinking that 40-50% is about the 99.9th percentile.</p>
<p>Opinions?</p>
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